GMBC ep21-From Page to Play: How Anne McCaffrey’s World Inspires Game Masters with The Feral Ladies
Speaker A
00:00:09.520 - 00:00:48.700
Welcome to the Game Masters Book Club, where great fiction becomes your next great tabletop role playing experience. Today's episode is brought to you by a triple arthurial threat.
Casey Asl, Marisa Wolf and Melissa Olthoff, collectively known on YouTube as the Farreladies, are here to review one of the classics of sci fi and fantasy, Dragonflight, the first book in the Dragonriders of Pern Books by Anne McCaffrey.
We cover hidden and ancient Internet lore from the play by post weird days of Dragon Rider fan fiction, discuss how the US Air Force shaped our author's dragon riding stories, and of course, we talk about our favorite dragons. Okay, Harpers, let's get into the conversation.
Speaker B
00:00:50.060 - 00:01:07.950
Welcome everybody to the Game Masters Book Club.
I'm Eric Jackson and I'm here with three brand new game mastery type people, at least incredibly creative people who are here to talk to us about one of the great classics of fantasy, the Dragon Riders of Perth.
Speaker C
00:01:07.950 - 00:01:08.670
Heck yeah.
Speaker B
00:01:09.070 - 00:01:22.590
And I'm going to have them introduce themselves to you in just a second.
But first I'll let you know that not only are they going to tell you about themselves, but they're also going to tell you about their favorite dragon. So is everybody ready?
Speaker D
00:01:22.910 - 00:01:23.630
So ready.
Speaker C
00:01:23.630 - 00:01:24.190
Yep.
Speaker B
00:01:24.190 - 00:01:29.450
All right, fantastic. Casey, we will start with you and feel free to take it away.
Speaker C
00:01:29.690 - 00:02:06.460
Okay. Hi everybody. My name is Casey Ezell.
I write emotionally charged adventure fantasy and science fiction and I literally became a pilot because I wanted to be a Dragon Rider. So those are my two claims to fame. My favorite dragon of all time was actually a bronze dragon from the Dragonriders of Pern series, but not.
Not one of the canon ones. It was one that I wrote in in my many, many years of doing nerdy online fan fiction. His name was Rudith and he was a badass. That was.
Can confirm that was his claim to fame. He was the baddest bronze.
Speaker B
00:02:07.100 - 00:02:08.300
The baddest bronze.
Speaker C
00:02:08.300 - 00:02:09.020
The baddest bronze.
Speaker B
00:02:09.020 - 00:02:09.500
Awesome.
Speaker C
00:02:09.580 - 00:02:10.380
Just ask him.
Speaker B
00:02:10.460 - 00:02:22.700
Yeah, we will definitely ask you a bit more about that previous writing experience. We get to our story summary and our game stuff. But Melissa, would you like to go next and tell us about your favorite dragon?
Speaker E
00:02:23.380 - 00:02:36.820
Hey, I'm Bliss Soltop. I write sci fi and fantasy and I always sneak in romance because I write what I love to read.
And if you hear chaotic barking in the background, pizza just arrived for, you know, the family and the dogs are saying hello.
Speaker B
00:02:38.100 - 00:02:38.740
Excellent.
Speaker E
00:02:39.300 - 00:03:02.510
As I do.
So my story is very similar to Casey's in that I too joined the Air Force because I was so mad that I couldn't actually be a green dragon rider that I was like, well, this is my next best option here. So I discovered Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey when I was 11. So my favorite dragon is always going to be Raymouth. Just because she was my first.
Speaker B
00:03:02.830 - 00:03:04.430
Can't forget your first. Absolutely.
Speaker F
00:03:04.430 - 00:03:05.070
100%.
Speaker B
00:03:06.430 - 00:03:08.030
Okay. Marissa.
Speaker D
00:03:08.030 - 00:03:33.030
Hi. Yeah, I am Marisa Wolf. I write science fiction and fantasy that ends in hope, though I make no promises about the path to get there.
And I also found Anne McCaffrey's Pern very, very early. I read the White dragon somewhere between 9 and 10, but I did not join the Air Force. I did write 20 years of PERN fanfiction about it.
Speaker C
00:03:33.030 - 00:03:33.870
Can confirm.
Speaker D
00:03:33.870 - 00:03:43.190
Yep, good times. And my favorite dragon that is non Pern, just to branch out a little, is Temeraire.
Speaker B
00:03:44.230 - 00:03:44.550
Yeah.
Speaker D
00:03:44.550 - 00:03:45.670
By Naomi Novik.
Speaker E
00:03:46.340 - 00:03:47.300
Love him so much.
Speaker D
00:03:47.460 - 00:03:47.900
Yeah.
Speaker F
00:03:47.900 - 00:03:48.500
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B
00:03:48.500 - 00:04:11.220
Fantastic. Fantastic dragon. My name is Eric Jackson, and I'm the host of the show, and I read Dragonflight for the second time for this show.
I read it once when I was much younger and did not have the strong reaction that our fabulous. Our other hosts have here today. But I have played Dungeons and Dragons for a really long time, and there have been a lot of dragons in my life.
Speaker C
00:04:12.640 - 00:04:12.800
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:04:12.800 - 00:06:13.150
I'm gonna cheat and mention two dragons. I am. I am. I know I'm the main host. I can do this. There's a very specific reason for this.
The first one that I have to mention is the stuffed dragon that my parents got me after I started playing Dungeons and Dragons when I was 9 years old in, like, 1979. And he became, because I was so clever, Dungeon the Dragon. And he has sat at my side at many D and D games.
I bring him to a lot of the games that I just to kind of hang out. And he's a little green dragon, so everybody's a little fan for that. I got him in an Easter basket that year, believe it or not.
He was my Easter bunny dragon.
But on a more gaming standpoint, I was reading through Facebook and I found one of those cute little stories, and I decided to put it into my game, which is there's a baby dragon that attaches itself to a single coin, and it gets passed around a marketplace. And everyone in the marketplace knows that the dragon is there and it just travels with its little coin. And I put that into one of my dn.
I know I put this into one of my games. And the characters saved the marketplace from destruction.
So the dragon Furosemide decided that he would go with them and see what other markets he could find with them. And he has been journeying with that party. There's actually still adventuring right now though.
Furosemide has become a teenager now and he has broken into the genie warlock's magical lamp and taken over half of it and put up like black like posters and has become a real. Become a teenager and he like invites people over for parties not supposed to. He's become a real, real hassle, you know, in that regard. So.
Yeah, Furosemide. All dragons in my world are named after various drug names because that's the best way to name dragons.
Speaker C
00:06:13.230 - 00:06:15.070
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
00:06:15.390 - 00:06:18.990
Furosemide treats high blood pressure as a diuretic, so.
Speaker C
00:06:19.230 - 00:06:19.789
Fair enough.
Speaker B
00:06:20.590 - 00:06:54.730
So there you go. All right, so that's everybody here and all and. And a number of dragon stories.
But the main dragon story that we're here to talk about is of course, Anne McCaffrey's amazing dragon riders of Burn and specifically Dragonflight, which is what we're going to be talking about today. I am the last person that should be summarizing this given the company that I am keeping here.
So I am looking forward to your critique of what I have to say. That is gonna be great.
Speaker C
00:06:55.450 - 00:06:56.770
All right, we're nice.
Speaker B
00:06:56.770 - 00:07:22.850
Here we go. Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey. Humans have colonized the planet Pernicious.
But due to the periodic threat attacks, threads are falling space fungus spores that devour all organic life. The people have forgotten their earthly origins.
To fight the threads, they have developed telepathic bonds with intelligent fire breathing dragon like creatures that are native to the planet to burn the threads from the sky. Doing good so far?
Speaker E
00:07:23.090 - 00:07:23.570
Yes.
Speaker B
00:07:23.890 - 00:08:23.500
All right. Good, good. The first book in the legendary 24 novel series is Dragonflight. This book takes place just before another thread incident.
But the dragon riders have fallen into disfavor as the threads are now thought to be legendary.
Lessa, a lost heir to a great family and Flor, a wing leader searching for a potential bond mate for a golden egg, that which will eventually produce a queen dragon. At the bonding, Less approves herself the strongest werewoman in recent memory by easily bonding with the new queen Ramoth.
While FL trains her, she discovers that dragons who can teleport can also travel through time.
Eventually this leads Less of the travel back 400 years in the past to bring forward the dragonriders of old who seriously disappeared so that they can fight the threads which have begun to fall and threaten the world. Okay, that's the best I could do in like two paragraphs if this. What else needs to be said?
Speaker C
00:08:23.500 - 00:09:16.180
I would Say, we should probably go into some of the social commentary that Anne McCaffrey was going with, because she set up a lot of the conflicts to be between basically different communities on Pern, between, like, the communities of Dragon Riders, who are all organized basically around support and sustainment of what is essentially a military force for them, versus the communities of Holders, which are far more like a medieval community based society around a lord and his family and, you know, had much more traditional gender roles for their women and their men. And then versus the craft holds, which is where all of the artisans worked. That was one of the things.
One of the themes that ran throughout the entire series is that these different communities with these different functions had essentially different microcultures, and those microcultures would clash all the time.
Speaker D
00:09:16.180 - 00:09:16.580
Yeah.
Speaker C
00:09:16.580 - 00:09:21.830
And it made for some very interesting reading and writing on the fan fiction side of things.
Speaker D
00:09:22.870 - 00:09:26.070
I think you covered it. The time travel, the instant teleportation.
Speaker C
00:09:26.150 - 00:09:26.550
Yeah.
Speaker D
00:09:26.550 - 00:09:27.830
The politics of it all.
Speaker C
00:09:27.910 - 00:10:15.310
The thing that was so compelling to, at least to me as a relatively lonely little girl who was way too smart for her own good and awkward and difficult to make friends, was this concept of the Dragon Rider Bond. Right. This incredibly powerful creature that was absolutely 100% devoted to you. Right.
The concept of somebody loving me that completely and putting me at the center of their world and putting someone, putting that creature that being at the center of my world was incredibly compelling to me at that age. And so I think that's probably a large part of the reason for the series popularity is that, you know, people want to connect.
And the way that Ann portrayed that connection with the dragons was powerful and, you know, alluring. Yeah.
Speaker D
00:10:15.630 - 00:10:43.850
And the only other thing I would add, because that, I mean, that's why I did 20 plus years of fan fiction. But the other thing I really loved about Dragonflight was the work of the Harper Hall.
So the fact that when Lessa went back in time, she realized it was possible because of a song that she then inspired the Harper in the past to write. I love that stuff when something comes full circle and it's like, oh, I found all these clues. I wonder why those clues were left for me.
Oh, I left them for me.
Speaker C
00:10:44.490 - 00:10:44.890
Right.
Speaker B
00:10:47.450 - 00:11:07.530
It is a very well constructed time travel setup. Absolutely. All of you are experts at playing in this world.
So my first question to all of you is, if you wanted to put this into a tabletop role playing situation, if you wanted to get a group of friends together and play a role playing game that felt like Pern.
Speaker E
00:11:07.610 - 00:11:08.090
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:11:08.090 - 00:11:09.210
How would you do it?
Speaker D
00:11:10.190 - 00:11:26.710
I'M real simple. I would do it like shadowrun pretty character role play dice heavy without a lot of math. So just like we're, we're rolling for decision points.
But yeah, I would go on like a shadow run kind of system. Plus I love me some shadow run.
Speaker C
00:11:26.710 - 00:11:27.550
So yeah.
Speaker B
00:11:29.390 - 00:11:31.790
That system has all, everything.
Speaker D
00:11:32.110 - 00:11:34.590
You need to do and yeah, for sure.
Speaker C
00:11:34.750 - 00:11:53.250
I think that if I were constructing a tabletop role playing game based around Pern, I would and I feel like I'm starting to sound like a broken record but I, I think that I would take a lot of inspiration from the way in which back in the day we used to run the, the fan fiction weirs online.
Speaker E
00:11:53.490 - 00:11:54.130
Hell yeah.
Speaker C
00:11:54.130 - 00:11:55.890
Where the. The.
Speaker B
00:11:56.610 - 00:11:58.770
Please, please enlighten, enlighten our guests.
Speaker C
00:11:58.770 - 00:14:06.380
So I was primarily involved in what they call play by email or sometimes play by message post. Play by post weirs. But the way that it would work is just like in tabletop role playing game.
You would create a character and you'd write a profile of this character and you'd submit that profile for approval. And once you got approved then you could join into the ongoing roleplay that was happening. The roleplay itself was all very free form.
It usually ended up being somewhat turn based because it was by email or by a message post. So you would go and you would see a post and you would respond to it in character as your character. Right.
Same thing with the, with emails that would come out on these big email lists. They'd get sent out to everyone and you would just basically reply to the list with your character's actions, thoughts, dialogue, et cetera.
So all of the roleplay was really free form. Where the mechanics piece came in was when you had specific scripted events.
For example, hatchings were always super, super popular because everybody wants the chance to impress a new baby dragon. So what we would do is the person who was usually it was the player of the, the queen dragon who was the mother.
The new clutch would be responsible for coming up with the clutch by means of an essentially like a low tech algorithm that was based on the stated frequencies of the different colors that would appear in each clutch.
And so we had this whole formula that we would run and we would use percentile dice to, to figure out which colors were showing up and which clutches and how many dragons were or how many, you know, eggs were gonna be laid in each clutch based on who the parents were and stuff like that.
And then either the candidates would be matched to the eggs by chance by rolling or the more likely what would happen is the Candidates would have to, like, role play for a period of time. And that would give the player of the clutch mother the opportunity to say, okay, I wanna put this person with this person.
I wanna put this person with this person.
So I would pro in a tabletop role playing setting where instead of just the clutch mother as another player, it would just be, you know, the person running the game, the game master.
Speaker B
00:14:07.820 - 00:14:12.220
I have questions. Okay, so does everybody play dragon riders or does it.
Speaker D
00:14:12.380 - 00:15:03.060
One of the things I loved the most about fan fiction was when you wrote your Persona, your character, and they were a dragon rider. Because some people wrote crafters and wear support and all kinds of things, and usually we would have multiple Personas.
I always had like 10 or more at any given time, because who I am as a person, no wonder I wrote novels. But a dragon was as much of a character as your human character.
And I think there were some places where sometimes people would play, like, one person would play the character and one person would play the dragon. But most often you have them as a pair and you would play them together.
That was almost always my favorite stuff was the interaction between like two riders and their two dragons. And just like, yeah, what.
How those cross conversations would go and their, like, usually the dragons making fun of, like, human habits was one of my favorite things.
Speaker C
00:15:03.540 - 00:15:54.450
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, again, it would.
To go back to your original question, you know, in a tabletop conversion type situation, I mean, it would really depend on what the stated goal of the game was and what the players wanted to do. Right.
Like, I could see a campaign where all of the players start out as candidates and what you're actually role playing is all of the events leading up to the hatching. And then you have the hatching and you get your pairings, you know, in game, essentially.
And then you get to role play out how the young dragon riders, how they're now adjusting to their new life as. As a bonded partner to this, you know, baby dragon.
Because that was one of the other things that was really fun to always role play was like brand new baby. Like they're infants, you know, and they're so silly. Oh, man, I love them. No, I'm getting ideas over here.
Speaker D
00:15:54.450 - 00:15:56.330
I know, right? I know, I know.
Speaker C
00:15:58.090 - 00:15:58.610
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:15:58.610 - 00:16:00.810
You're like, oh, I gotta write this down.
Speaker D
00:16:01.130 - 00:16:02.690
I miss our fanfiction so much.
Speaker C
00:16:02.690 - 00:16:05.130
I do. It was a lot of fun. That's how I do it.
Speaker B
00:16:06.650 - 00:16:09.290
Everybody else get a chance to say something. I lost track.
Speaker C
00:16:09.290 - 00:16:11.370
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker E
00:16:11.370 - 00:17:00.610
You couldn't see me earlier, but I was waving my Hand going. Yes, yes.
And because one of the things I really loved about Pern the most was, like they said, the character interactions and those bonds between the dragons and riders, as far as converting it to an actual tabletop game goes, I am not personally a huge gamer, but I am a fan of Cards Against Humanity because of just the sheer ridiculousness of it. So I think it would be a lot of fun to have cards against Humanity, you know, dragonriers of Pern version, because that could be a little ridiculous.
And a lot of the books were really serious. They had like epic stakes and struggles and. And character growth and all the things.
But also when you dip into the fan fiction side of it, that's where you get like the more silly stuff. You get to see those silly baby dragons and you get to see like character A and character B are like dancing around each other like.
Speaker C
00:17:02.610 - 00:17:07.410
Yeah, fully, fully existed in fan fiction. Don't kid yourself. Yeah.
Speaker E
00:17:09.570 - 00:17:21.089
So I really do love that aspect. And Cards Against Humanity would just be a fun way to take a look at the world through a slightly different lens. And also raunchy.
Speaker C
00:17:24.449 - 00:17:25.249
All that energy.
Speaker B
00:17:27.489 - 00:17:35.329
You got all those dragons and all that breeding going on and you're like, yeah, yeah, a lot of energy going on. Yeah, that's.
Speaker F
00:17:35.329 - 00:17:35.889
There you go.
Speaker B
00:17:36.209 - 00:17:58.210
I'm gonna jump in as the, I guess the. The game guy. This is weird. I'm so used to being the least game oriented guy when it comes in here.
I started the podcast because I mostly just play Dungeons and Dragons and my first thought that has to be said is that the Drake warden Rangers in 5e, you can be a Dragon Rider in D and D. It's right there.
Speaker C
00:17:58.370 - 00:17:58.930
So cool.
Speaker B
00:17:58.930 - 00:17:59.690
It's all set up.
Speaker C
00:17:59.690 - 00:18:00.170
So cool.
Speaker B
00:18:00.170 - 00:18:29.370
You go start with a baby dragon. Gets bigger and bigger and bigger. It's a ton of fun.
But if you wanted to do a more Pern kind of a thing, I'd probably go with a new game that I literally just bought for this episode, which is be to going called Warren Guard. It's by Luck of the harbor games. I think it's got the most direct method of playing in a world like Pern.
It has a way of setting up warrens is how they refer to them. So it's set up with telepathically bonded dragon rider pairs that fight other creatures.
Speaker D
00:18:29.770 - 00:18:30.490
Oh, nice.
Speaker B
00:18:30.650 - 00:19:42.770
That fly in the sky though. No threads. They do have flying space jellyfish though, so we're really close.
The characters also get aspects which are these big statements of what they are, like the greatest warrior. And you can use Those to invoke bonuses. The game primarily runs off of what's called Fate system. So it's a pretty universal system.
So if you've gotten people to play a fate based game before, this could be a great way to do that. Also my second choice, to make it a little more complex because.
Because Warren Guard is kind of a more of a fluffy, happy, cozy kind of Dragon Rider game. There's a game called Tachyon Squadron, which is designed for mech combat.
So it's a little crunchier and you've got like more weapons and weird things that are going on.
And it also has a more military feel to its world build, which, as you guys pointed out, the Dragon Riders have this sort of Terry structurey kind of thing going on.
So if you combine the Tachyon Squadron, which also happens to be a fake game, and the Warren Guard, I think you can take that military thing and smash them together to the point where you get turned.
Speaker C
00:19:42.770 - 00:19:43.570
That sounds really fun.
Speaker D
00:19:43.570 - 00:20:13.080
Yeah, that sounds super fun. On the Dungeons and Dragons side of the house, I'm in my very first campaign now.
I play with Casey and some of our friends and I for sure got a Ranger without knowing Drake Warden was a thing. And when I leveled up to the right level, I was. I emailed our DM and I was like, excuse me, can I, can I, can I have a dragon?
He was like, give me a minute because Drake Wardens are pretty new. And so he went and he looked it up and he was like, hell yeah. And in fact, I designed you one. Here she is. And I lost my shit. I was so excited.
Speaker B
00:20:13.320 - 00:20:39.840
So that's fantastic. So now that we've had a chance to talk about the Tabletop roleplay of it all, since I have three authors here, I.
This is where this is going to be great. Because I know you guys have found inspiration in this book already.
So why don't you tell me what are things from the world of Pern that you would like to put into your worlds, be it tabletop or literary.
Speaker C
00:20:39.840 - 00:20:41.480
Yeah, Melissa, you want to.
Speaker B
00:20:43.030 - 00:20:55.990
Melissa, do you want to start? Yeah, Melissa, do you want to start? We promised we wouldn't do that. Okay, sorry. Who wants to say nice things about Melissa first?
Casey, why don't you do it?
Speaker C
00:20:55.990 - 00:21:06.230
Okay. I will say that Melissa was very successful in pulling inspiration from Pern in her incredible novel, Rise from Ruin.
Speaker D
00:21:06.230 - 00:21:06.790
So good.
Speaker C
00:21:07.270 - 00:22:03.100
So in this book, she has bonded dragon and bonded griffin riders. It is set at a sort of far future, post apocalyptic fantasy military academy.
And I can tell you because I actually Am a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, class of 99. Shit hot. That she gets it right. Like, she gets the feeling of what it's like to be a cadet in military training. She nailed it.
And the bonds that she explores, but the different types of writers, it's so beautifully done. So she's said before that she took inspiration from the Dragonrise of Pern and also Mercedes Lackey and Larry Dixon's the Black Griffin.
And you can see it, you can see the inspiration, but it is definitely her own story, her own twist, her own flavor of these incredibly beautiful stories of bonded people and creatures doing extraordinary things under extraordinary sun.
Speaker E
00:22:03.100 - 00:22:06.450
I'm really glad you guys can't see my face because it is bright red.
Speaker D
00:22:09.890 - 00:22:32.130
That's what I'd take. Right? Like, I would take the bonding right out. Like, I couldn't have a story with dragons without some kind of bonding thing.
And fully second everything Casey said, though not as a graduate of the Air Force Academy, but just as someone who really likes a good story where all the internal logic makes sense. This one does. And I love Rise from Ruin so, so, so, so much.
Speaker C
00:22:32.130 - 00:22:32.450
Yeah.
Speaker D
00:22:32.520 - 00:22:44.440
If we're going to take other things out that aren't in anybody's books, I would also take Thread. If you're going to play a game, like, it's really nice to have an unreasoning, unreasonable, insatiable adversary. Yeah, it would be pretty bothering.
Speaker C
00:22:44.520 - 00:22:45.000
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:22:45.080 - 00:22:48.839
Anytime you can put fungus as the creature in question, I am on board.
Speaker C
00:22:49.160 - 00:22:49.560
Yeah.
Speaker D
00:22:49.560 - 00:22:49.880
Right.
Speaker B
00:22:50.120 - 00:22:58.820
I have a biology degree, so I've spent time actually studying funguses and stuff. And I'm like, oh, yeah, this stuff is creepy and it's awesome, right?
Speaker C
00:22:58.820 - 00:23:00.300
Yeah, it's actually terrifying.
Speaker E
00:23:00.300 - 00:23:04.660
You can't negotiate a ceasefire or anything like that. You fight or you die.
Speaker C
00:23:05.540 - 00:24:06.440
Other than the bonding, I think what I would take and put in a game is we barely see it in Dragonflight, but we see at the very beginning, Lessa has a relationship with the watchwear of Ruatha Hold. The watchwears, we're told, are distant relations of the dragons. And you find out more later in the series, they develop that a little bit further.
But I love this concept of a feral bruiser dragon cousin that, rather than being bonded to one particular person, is essentially bonded to the bloodline of a particular community and is just rabid and ferocious. Ferocious and a force of nature in its own right. I think that that is something very cool, either as an adversary or.
Or as a, like, delicate ally, I guess, would be the way to put that. If you know what I mean? For players in a particular game, depending on whatever their objective is, I always.
Speaker E
00:24:06.440 - 00:24:19.440
Really like them too. But the thing that I would take both, whether we're talking a novel or a game or real life, would be the instant teleportation aspect because.
Speaker D
00:24:20.070 - 00:24:20.990
Oh my God, y'.
Speaker C
00:24:20.990 - 00:24:21.150
All.
Speaker E
00:24:21.150 - 00:24:38.390
Like, if I could. If I could instantly teleport to the couch that Marisa and Casey are sitting on right now, the pup would need to move over because it would just be.
It would be amazing to have that ability to just go anywhere. That kind of freedom is an amazing concept.
Speaker C
00:24:38.630 - 00:24:40.310
Agreed. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
00:24:40.390 - 00:25:06.120
Oh, yeah. And then combine that with the time travel.
The thing that I really like about the time travel in this one is that it's set up in such a way that it is. It's very limited. You can't just use it over and over again. It causes difficulties.
There are rules to it and can figure out the clues that are left by people throughout time. You can use it effectively, but otherwise you could be lost into. Oh God, I've forgotten what it's called.
Speaker C
00:25:06.280 - 00:25:06.680
Between.
Speaker B
00:25:06.680 - 00:25:30.080
The between. In the in between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the between. So it's got some danger involved. So it's not a lock.
You know, you're not always going to get it exactly right, but. And in fact, in the book, she gets it wrong and ends up going days ahead of schedule and then they send back. That was pretty awesome.
Oh, don't worry, everything works out. You're not in the wrong place. I love that. It's like, wait, how do you know? Because you told me three days ago.
Speaker F
00:25:30.160 - 00:25:30.559
What?
Speaker C
00:25:30.800 - 00:25:32.600
But I love that.
Speaker B
00:25:32.600 - 00:25:38.960
So yeah, definitely. I love a good time travel story that is that kind of detail that has those rules.
Speaker C
00:25:39.040 - 00:25:40.080
So, yeah, for sure.
Speaker B
00:25:40.080 - 00:25:42.960
Anything else anyone else wants to throw in onto the pile?
Speaker C
00:25:43.410 - 00:26:16.950
Maybe the concept of the liers being living quarters built into active volcanoes and using geothermal to heat their water. Because I have. And again from Dragonflight, there's this incredible scene when Lessa first comes to the weir where she been in hiding as a drudge.
And so she hasn't really been able to take like a full immerse your body bath in years. And I have said before many times, if I could have anything from Lessa's life, it would be Remoth, her dragon.
Yeah, If I can't have her dragon, I want her stupid bathing.
Speaker B
00:26:22.150 - 00:26:26.230
Geo heated steam baths. Definitely worth taking care of dragons for, right?
Speaker C
00:26:26.310 - 00:26:27.510
For sure. For sure.
Speaker B
00:26:28.230 - 00:26:46.610
All right, well that brings us to our next exciting part of the. Of the story here.
And that is of course, other stories we've already mentioned one of the best stories that can be attributed to the Dragon riders of Pern. So we've covered the most important one. I wanted to see what everybody else.
Speaker A
00:26:46.690 - 00:26:49.090
Had chosen that had similar vibes, pieces.
Speaker B
00:26:49.090 - 00:27:04.530
Of media, literature, anything that you think were deeply influenced by this. If you were going to be gathering inspiration to put together one of these games, what would be your source material? Where would you go?
What do you think, Melissa? Where would you start?
Speaker E
00:27:04.610 - 00:27:37.720
One of my other favorite series that I don't know that it was directly influenced by Pern, but I mean, who honestly, who is raiding dragons and hasn't been influenced by Pern would be the Temeraire series. Just because like it was so well executed as far as the bonds and those relationships between Temeraire and Lawrence.
It was a very cool concept of like Napoleonic wars and essentially like instead of airplanes you have dragons taking the place of the Air Force. So I love that series. So yeah, it's kind of high up there on my list of I need to reread the series because. Oh my goodness.
Speaker B
00:27:39.250 - 00:28:01.010
Oh, that reminds me, on the game side, just to jump back, there is a card game actually it's done with books that's based off of Ace of aces, World War II plane combat. It's called In Harm's Way. It is Napoleonic dragon based aerial combat.
So if you just, if you just want to have dragons fighting, definitely go look up In Harm's Way.
Speaker C
00:28:01.010 - 00:28:02.130
Yeah, that sounds super fun.
Speaker B
00:28:05.060 - 00:28:08.020
I know. I have to get a copy. I'm so excited.
Speaker C
00:28:08.900 - 00:28:59.390
So anyway, we kind of take a little bit of a hard left here and talk about, because you know, when you're mentioning source material, talked a lot about dragon riders and the people that ride the dragons. But one of my favorite books about dragons themselves is actually a middle grade series and it's called Min the Mighty by Becca Gardner. So good.
And the main character is a dragon. Her name is Min and she is very small as opposed to all of her fellows who are very large. But she is undaunted and I absolutely love it.
Actually Marisa bought the series for my daughter, which is how I got to encounter it. And it's so, so, so good. Highly, highly recommended.
I loved Becca's portrayal of just the dragon personalities themselves and like how they interacted with each other and stuff. So I would definitely work in some of those aspects into a Dragon Rider game for sure.
Speaker D
00:29:00.750 - 00:29:45.180
I was waiting, I wasn't sure. So yes, fully second both of those. Those are such great series.
Another one that I bought mostly for the COVID and because I was promised dragons but then fell really in love with the story is Seraphina. I really, really, really, really liked that one. And it just starts with a young woman who's, you know, kind of out of place and, you know, relate.
And then she finds out. And this is not a spoiler. This is like the point of the book, but that she is in fact half dragon. And that's really fun.
And it's illegal to be a half dragon, so that's also really fun. The whole story is such a great coming of age story with dragons. And I love it. The dragons are all such individual characters, we'll say.
Speaker B
00:29:47.340 - 00:29:50.220
Absolutely. That is a fantastic book. Did you read the second one?
Speaker D
00:29:50.220 - 00:30:00.300
Yeah. Test on the road or something. Yeah, I. And I started it and I was like, oh, I hate her. This is awful. And then the story wasn't awful.
I just did not enjoy the character.
Speaker C
00:30:00.300 - 00:30:02.620
But God dang it, I fell in.
Speaker D
00:30:02.620 - 00:30:04.580
Love with her by the end. Like, not even by the end.
Speaker B
00:30:05.940 - 00:30:11.460
Yeah, I had the same problem. I started and put it down because I was like, oh, I don't even want to. And then I went back.
Speaker E
00:30:11.620 - 00:30:12.180
So good.
Speaker C
00:30:12.260 - 00:30:13.540
Yeah, I will.
Speaker D
00:30:13.620 - 00:30:18.650
I will now officially read anything that that author does in that world because I trust her at this point.
Speaker B
00:30:18.800 - 00:30:30.480
So, yeah, we can love anybody. So there you go. Just to keep the ravening wolves at bay, I'm gonna mention 4th Wing by Rebecca Yarros. Just so that's out there.
Speaker C
00:30:30.640 - 00:30:31.000
Okay.
Speaker B
00:30:31.000 - 00:30:31.360
We said it.
Speaker C
00:30:31.360 - 00:30:31.720
We're good.
Speaker B
00:30:31.720 - 00:30:35.000
Nobody can say I didn't say it. Absolutely. Yeah. Fine.
Speaker F
00:30:35.000 - 00:30:35.240
Done.
Speaker B
00:30:35.240 - 00:31:21.410
Good. I want to mention at least One other book, Ms. Percy's Guide to the Care and Feeding of Dragons by Quinn B. Olson. Oh, those were just like.
If you like bonding and you like the raising of dragons and the caring of dragons and the setting up of a world that hasn't had dragons and now has it. Oh, just a absolutely, really great. And a fabulous slow burn love story all through it. So chef's kiss on that. And then to take a non dragon thing.
And I'm only bringing this up because apparently we have two former military people here. I have to bring up my absolute favorite military book, which also does a lot of great barrack stuff, which is Elizabeth Moon's Pachner series.
Okay, good. You like it.
Speaker E
00:31:21.410 - 00:31:21.650
Okay.
Speaker B
00:31:21.650 - 00:31:22.370
I'm like, oh, God.
Speaker C
00:31:22.370 - 00:31:28.330
Elizabeth Moon was actually upperized in pern by Anne McCaffrey. I did not.
Speaker B
00:31:28.649 - 00:31:29.010
What?
Speaker C
00:31:29.010 - 00:31:29.450
Yes.
Speaker B
00:31:29.690 - 00:31:30.290
Say that again.
Speaker C
00:31:30.290 - 00:32:00.170
Elizabeth moon knew Anne McCaffrey. They worked together. And Anne McCaffrey punkerized Elizabeth Moon in one of the later books, I want to say it was like all the we. Maybe. I'm not sure.
Don't quote me on that. But there's a tiny mention in one of the later books that Anne did of a young harper named Ellen, Mona. And that is a tuckerization of Elizabeth Moon.
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker B
00:32:03.210 - 00:32:05.210
That is amazing. That is absolutely amazing.
Speaker C
00:32:05.450 - 00:32:09.080
One more book, real quick, because I just thought of one. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
00:32:09.080 - 00:32:09.520
No, please.
Speaker C
00:32:09.520 - 00:32:44.900
I thought that would be a fun twist.
And full disclosure, I haven't finished reading the book yet, but there's a current sci fi series, sci fi fantasy series, I guess out from Bane books right now by Dan Kobold, where it's called Domesticating Dragons is the first one. And it's basically, okay, we've genetically engineered dragons. What do we do with them?
And I want to mention it because if you are in fact trying to build a game around dragons, but you want to set it in like, you know, like a D20 modern type scenario, that would be incredible source material because it's a really fun story so far. So, yeah.
Speaker B
00:32:46.260 - 00:33:08.340
Quick, one last thing to promote how to train your dragon. And the only reason why I mentioned this is because. The only reason why I have to mention it is because it's the only tattoo I have.
I have a toothless tattoo. So. So, yeah, so I'm like. I'm like. Yeah. So I had to say, like, the tattoo I have is a combination of it's toothless around a tree of knowledge.
Speaker C
00:33:08.970 - 00:33:09.210
I.
Speaker B
00:33:09.210 - 00:33:26.810
Which is really cool because it reminds me of Crystal Soldier, which is the origin story of. From Sharon Lee and Stephen Miller, the Laden series. And this is. That's the word. And that's the book that has the world with the tree and the dragon.
Speaker C
00:33:27.610 - 00:33:28.010
So.
Speaker B
00:33:28.410 - 00:33:31.250
So, so I have a tree and dragon tattoo.
Speaker C
00:33:31.250 - 00:33:31.770
Very cool.
Speaker B
00:33:31.770 - 00:33:37.990
So that's my. That's my other. So there. Anybody last minute. Any other books you want to throw in, go ahead, go on.
Speaker D
00:33:38.390 - 00:33:56.390
It's Marie Brennan. The Natural History of Dragons maybe is the title. Those were super fun. The dragons are not fully sentient, so it's not like my top, top, top.
But they're incredibly well written and they are super fun and the main character is just fantabulous. I love her.
Speaker C
00:33:58.070 - 00:33:58.710
All right.
Speaker E
00:33:59.590 - 00:34:03.030
Ooh, I love that. I also have another one that we need to add.
Speaker D
00:34:03.110 - 00:34:03.750
Oh, my God.
Speaker E
00:34:03.990 - 00:34:07.600
Mercedes Lackey. Elvin Bane. Right.
Speaker C
00:34:08.320 - 00:34:09.280
I loved.
Speaker E
00:34:09.280 - 00:34:20.560
I love that world because you had like the. The classic elves and you had humans and then you had dragons, and they were all separate and sentient. And all the things and. And just the conflict.
And I just. Oh, it's another series.
Speaker B
00:34:20.560 - 00:34:23.520
I have increasing TBRs.
Speaker C
00:34:23.760 - 00:34:24.240
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:34:26.560 - 00:34:43.339
Okay. Well, speaking of increasing TBRs, that's going to bring us to the last part of our show where we talk about stuff people want to promote.
And since I've got three writers here, I assume books to promote. So who wants to go first? I think it would have to be Marissa.
Speaker D
00:34:43.339 - 00:34:48.499
So I'll do something of mine, something of ours, and something of someone else's. Yes. Right.
Speaker B
00:34:48.499 - 00:34:48.859
There we go.
Speaker D
00:34:48.859 - 00:35:07.740
A little bit from every category. So my very first fantasy novel comes out September 2nd. So I think when you're listening to this, it should be out in the world.
It's called A Plague of Magic, and as it says on the front cover, it is the story of, like, a huge treasure. A tiny dragon, a whole lot of trouble.
Speaker C
00:35:07.740 - 00:35:11.180
A little dragon, a big score and a whole lot of trouble.
Speaker D
00:35:11.580 - 00:35:25.580
And the dragon in this one is very tiny and very angry. Yes, I agree. And he keeps those characteristics for almost the entire story, so.
Speaker C
00:35:25.740 - 00:35:29.340
And he has good reason to be both things. Yes, yes.
Speaker D
00:35:30.230 - 00:35:33.310
Real tiny. He real angry. So that's a plague of magic.
Speaker E
00:35:33.310 - 00:35:33.710
Yeah.
Speaker D
00:35:33.710 - 00:36:05.290
If you enjoy chaos brought to you by multiple authors being fully unhinged on the Internet, we also have a podcast called Feral Ladies, because we are feral. And so you can find the three of us causing trouble on the Internet there.
And then something that is none of ours, but came out this year also by an amazing author, Shami Stovall, is Words of power. And the tagline of that one is, power isn't given. It's taken. And oof. It's a fun ride.
Speaker C
00:36:05.290 - 00:36:05.650
It's.
Speaker D
00:36:05.650 - 00:36:06.530
It's progression.
Speaker C
00:36:06.530 - 00:36:07.090
Fantasy.
Speaker D
00:36:07.090 - 00:36:12.690
Oh, my God, it's so good. So, yeah, that's my three. I'm sure I have more, but those are three for now.
Speaker C
00:36:13.170 - 00:38:01.100
Okay. Something of mine. So my first fantasy novel is called Mage. Like, there are as of yet, no dragons in it, no promises about the sequel.
But Mage Light, it is essentially the origin story of a D and D adventuring party because you have a young woman who is a sorceress who has been told all her life that she's not good enough because she just doesn't have very much power.
One day, after getting her heart broken in a spectacularly, embarrassingly public fashion, she decides to stop listening and take fate into her own hands. And she leaves and gets herself into trouble and gets rescued by three very competent, very dangerous, very attractive men.
So it is a fantasy adventure with a slow burn. Why choose romantic subplot and I love it. And if you are a gamer, you will also love it. Don't get scared by the romance you'll enjoy.
The heck, it's something of ours. Marisa already talked about our podcast.
We also tend to go to a lot of conventions, so by the time this is coming out, I believe our 2025 schedule will be finished. But you will probably find us all at Liberty Con in Chattanooga, Tennessee and at dragoncon.
Libertycon's in June and then Dragon Con in Atlanta, Georgia for Labor Day weekend. So. And then something that none of us wrote. I would say check out if you have not already.
This has nothing to do with dragons, but it's just a fantastic story. The first one is the Black Wolves of Boston by Gwen Spencer. So much fun.
It's about a teenage werewolf who not only does he have to deal with puberty in high school, he's also a werewolf. And not just any werewolf. He's like the werewolf prince. Right?
Speaker D
00:38:01.420 - 00:38:02.140
Royalty.
Speaker C
00:38:02.220 - 00:38:14.610
So it's a lot. Yeah. The first one's Black Wolves of Boston. The second one is Black Tie and Tales and it came out this summer as well.
And there are rare penguins and I believe that's all I should say yes to.
Speaker E
00:38:14.610 - 00:38:15.170
Say nothing.
Speaker C
00:38:15.730 - 00:38:16.370
That's right.
Speaker B
00:38:17.970 - 00:38:18.530
All right.
Speaker D
00:38:18.530 - 00:38:19.090
Love it.
Speaker E
00:38:21.570 - 00:38:53.440
So I also had my first fantasy release from Bane back in June. It was Rise from Ruin and it features she spent her whole life wishing, dreaming, training to be a Dragon Rider.
Unfortunately, her three best friends are morons and they pranked her at the exact wrong or right moments. And instead of bonding with her green dragon, she ended up accidentally bonding to an utterly ridiculous and insanely brave griffin. I love him.
I love Felix so much. He's not the main character, but he thinks he is.
Speaker C
00:38:53.519 - 00:38:54.160
Yeah, he does.
Speaker E
00:38:54.560 - 00:39:09.610
He steals every scene he is in. Both Sherilyn Kenyon and Jodi Lind Nye were kind enough to provide me cover blurbs for it.
And Jodi Lind I was like When I brought up the idea of getting a griffin tattoo, she was like, yes.
Speaker C
00:39:09.610 - 00:39:14.050
You absolutely need to have Felix tattooed on your body. I'm like, yep. Huh.
Speaker E
00:39:14.050 - 00:39:31.130
This checks out. So Rise from Ruin also features.
I call it Dragonriers of Per meets Fourth Wing meets the Griffins of Valdemar in a post apocalyptic fantasy setting where you also have a military academy and a My new favorite romantic trope. Slow Burn Idiots to lovers.
Speaker B
00:39:32.250 - 00:39:40.490
Oh my God. Jodi Lynn Nye. I mean, she's the queen of the fan fiction of Pern, right? I mean.
Speaker C
00:39:40.810 - 00:39:43.130
Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker E
00:39:43.130 - 00:41:01.810
Yes. She has direct involvement with the Dragon Riders of Pern. So I was very fortunate that she was willing to read it and loved it.
So I was there was shrieking. If you heard it a couple months ago, that was probably me. For all three of us, we've already covered our podcast and our in person convention appear.
But the other thing the three of us tend to do is just be feral and chaotic on the Internet. You know, we're, we're on all the socials. You'll see Casey and me doing reels. Marisa is like amazing at being on all these podcasts.
So we, we are all over the place and we are really, really excited to talk not just really about our own stuff, but we talk about each other's stuff. So it's, it's a good time. So you can find us everywhere. But for something that is not related to any of us but is related to Bane's feral.
For Fantasy summer, we have A.C. haskins and his sequel, Blood and Fate. And like the first one was Blood and Whispers. I think it's pretty much like if you liked Harry Dresden, you're gonna like Thomas Quinn.
Like it's gritty urban fantasy. And A.C. haskins managed to combine his love of guns and bourbon and punching. They fairy vicious creatures in the face.
And it's, it's a really good time. So that would be my recommendation.
Speaker C
00:41:01.890 - 00:41:02.410
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:41:02.410 - 00:41:18.290
All right, Fantastic. I can only say that this has been an insane pleasure. This has been a riot and a half.
You should listen to the Pharaoh Ladies anywhere you can find them and enjoy their company if you chance to. And this has been wonderful. Thank you so much.
Speaker E
00:41:19.410 - 00:41:19.970
Thank you.
Speaker C
00:41:19.970 - 00:41:21.510
Thanks for having me.
Speaker E
00:41:22.460 - 00:41:22.860
Much fun.
Speaker A
00:41:25.100 - 00:41:45.020
And that was the amazing fair ladies, Melissa Althoff, KCSL and Marissa Wolf and their take on Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey had an absolute blast, ladies. And I hope you make it back to our podcast soon.
If you can't wait for the Pharaoh Ladies next appearance here on the Game Masters Book Club, go find them on their socials or on YouTube. Under the Pharaoh Ladies.
Speaker F
00:41:45.180 - 00:42:30.950
You can find a complete transcript of today's discussion as well as links to all of our podcasts@k-square productions.com GMBC.
You can learn about upcoming episodes on our social media on bluesky@gmbookclub, bluesky social, on Facebook at gamemasters book club, on Mastodon amastersbookclub and on Instagram @gamemastersbookclub. If you've enjoyed the show, please like subscribe. Subscribe and comment on our episodes in your chosen podcasting space.
And be sure to share those episodes with your gaming community. You've been listening to the Game Masters Book Club brought to you by me, Eric Jackson and K Square Productions.
Continued praise and thanks to John Corbett for the podcast artwork and Otis Galloway for our music.
Speaker A
00:42:31.110 - 00:42:41.600
Join us in two weeks when Tom Watkins, Rich Davies and Martin Wilson take us to Saladin Ahmed's fantastical Arabian Adventure in the Throne of the Crescent Moon.
Speaker F
00:42:41.760 - 00:42:48.400
Later, gamers and to paraphrase the great Terry Pratchett, always try to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.